APP Fraud: The Problem Banks Can't Solve Alone

In this episode of Executive Conversations by The Paypers, host Dwayne Gefferie sits down with André Ferraz, CEO of Incognia, and Joe Wilson, Board Member at bunq, to break down why APP fraud is outpacing many of the tools built to stop it, and what banks can do about it.

They cover:

• What APP fraud actually is, and why social engineering scams sidestep standard fraud detection

• The global liability debate: who should be on the hook when a customer authorizes a fraudulent payment?

• How fraudsters use AI-generated voices and fake social profiles to impersonate family members and bank staff 

• How the receiving end of most APP fraud scams is almost always a mule account, making it the clearest signal that a transaction is fraudulent

• Why neither side can fix this in isolation, and how privacy-preserving data sharing between financial institutions lets banks flag mule accounts to each other without ever exposing customer PII

• Why grounding digital identity in physical reality (device + location intelligence) may be the most fraud-resistant signal left as deepfakes undermine biometrics, OTPs, and document verification

Whether you work in fraud prevention, risk, product, or compliance at a financial institution, this conversation lays out where the industry stands today and where the next fight is headed.

Originally produced by The Paypers as part of their Executive Conversation series.